Curse

Amaurosis · Apr 10, 2010, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

so people don't read off all the builds, tactics, guidethroughs and brainlessly grind in RA?
good joke.

that's not because it's 'harder' to get pvp titles, as in requiring more skill. it's just the other form of grind and pvp titles require more grind by default setting of the developers. i agree - it's much easier/faster to get 10 pve titles maxed rather than gladiator title maxed. but that's not because glad is somewhat harder - it just involves much more grind.

the biggest difference - not the only one, keep that in mind please, but it's the biggest thing about it - is that gvg/ha requires you to have a dedicated guild/friends that will play along with you, while pve can be pretty much soloed. apart of that, it's still down to the same basic stuff - find out a tactic from current meta and be better than the opposition, so that you score and don't die. and then grind up your title until you get those thousands/milions points you need to max it.

I doubt any game would want to have any part of their PvP grinded into completion within a few weeks. And as for RA it doesn't matter what bar you run if you don't have the competence to execute it properly gaining glad pts. will be a tiresome experience. In PvE it's different considering all the choices you have involving PvE only skills, title buffs, consets, etc. Someone could grind RA not knowing what they're doing and accumulate >40 pts over a 3 month period. However someone using a build walkthrough on wiki can quickly find it easy to grind out their titles, a perfect example being Discord spam , and achieve tiers of gwamm in a relatively shorter and easier time. Given there are builds on both sides that are easy to run, it's so be expected since this game has been winding down.
But that still is no reason for suggesting PvE titles. Instead of just poking a dead body with a stick, you're attempting to put makeup on the corpse and take pictures with it as well.

Thevil King · Apr 10, 2010, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

so people don't read off all the builds, tactics, guidethroughs and brainlessly grind in RA?
good joke.

are you srsly comparing ra with other, more sophisticated formats of pvp? is your definition of pvp ra? if thats the case, then you should srsly play some real pvp. though at this point in game, i do agree that pvp has deterioated a considerable amount, but ra is NOT the definition of pvp. besides, even if u do load up a build and read up on pvp guides, they do NOTHING to guarantee that you will succeed at it. whereas in pve, the guides pretty much sum up everything that you need to know to do it right.

Quote:

that's not because it's 'harder' to get pvp titles, as in requiring more skill. it's just the other form of grind and pvp titles require more grind by default setting of the developers. i agree - it's much easier/faster to get 10 pve titles maxed rather than gladiator title maxed. but that's not because glad is somewhat harder - it just involves much more grind.

the reason why they made pvp titles "harder"(in whatever definition), is because anets original intention with gw IS TO MAKE IT A PVP ORIENTED GAME. therefore, their design of the game should revolve around making pvp "harder." and honestly speaking, plz dont tell me that you think the avg pve player knows more about game mechanics, tactics, etc more than the avg pvp player.

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there's so much hate towards pvp because some pvp players tend to be 'elitist'. 'pvp is pro, shut up you fkin pve noob', to sum it up in one rough sentence - and you're doing a similar thing in your last paragraph. pvp is not harder than pve - it's simply different and has more variables. still, it all comes to the very same grind in the end.

i do not disagree that alot of pvp players tend to be elitist, in fact i dislike these ppl as well. but youre just singling out pvp players here, are you saying that veteran pve players arent elitist too? in fact, theres threads on this forum that talks about this, elitist uw ppl for example. you are only distorting the truth when you accuse only pvp players for this. i am not doing anything to project any emotions of elitism in my post. i am only stating the facts, pvp does require more understanding of basic game mechanics.

Quote:

the biggest difference - not the only one, keep that in mind please, but it's the biggest thing about it - is that gvg/ha requires you to have a dedicated guild/friends that will play along with you, while pve can be pretty much soloed. apart of that, it's still down to the same basic stuff - find out a tactic from current meta and be better than the opposition, so that you score and don't die. and then grind up your title until you get those thousands/milions points you need to max it.

like i said in my first post, plz dont look at this from a post-eotn perspective. the reason that gvg/ha requires an active list of players, is not because it is that way from the start, it is because the game has evolved to the point now where the pvp population is so small that you cannot find enough new players to replace the old, departing/departed players. back when ha had like 3-4 dists all the time? your argument will fall apart.

pve can pretty much solod: again, you are looking at this from the post-eotn perspective. back in like 2005, 2006. missions such as uw/fow and even sf were what their names imply them to be: "elite missions". they literally require your maximum effort and time to be cleared, sometimes hours of playing. this is why pve had some prestige attached to it back then. but now with all the heros, pve only skills, consets, and random sht like these, pve is nothing more than a joke. you get all these manuals and guidethroughs on websites, and can sc an "elite" mission easily. in other words, the reason pve can be pretty much solod is because they have been dumbed down to the point that they can be done almost brainlessly, plus the fact that the population has shrunk, so you pretty much NEED heros and hench if you want to do a mission. most obviously, anet did not make this game thinking they should make it into a single player pve game, it only ended up like this because of the things that have happend AFTER its original release. namely, anet making dumb decisions and taking dumb advices by ppl who doesnt know anything about how to maintain this game.

Terrible Surgeon · Apr 11, 2010, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Yeah gw is pretty much dead. Enjoy it while you can because its only going to get worse. I think it would be cool to have a GW with no heros/henchies and then the titles in pve would be looked at with more respect. But even then pve is an area that can be beaten by reading guides like Thevil King says so the level of prestige in pve titles would still fail in comparison to pvp titles.

drkn · Apr 11, 2010, 04:12 PM // 16:12

whether you like it or not, RA is a part of GW PVP. be glad i haven't mentioned JQ, FA and AB - whether you like it or not, those formats are PVP as well. PVP is not limited to GvG and HA only, although 'elitist pvpers' tend to be ignorant.

Quote:

anets original intention with gw IS TO MAKE IT A PVP ORIENTED GAME.

please provide an official source. i never saw an ANet employee to state that GW was originally (or up to some point) a PVP-oriented game, although i have seen this point of view brought up many times, so maybe it's just my lack of knowledge.
until i see an official statement confirming this, it's just a PVPers' meme.

Quote:

i am only stating the facts, pvp does require more understanding of basic game mechanics.

high-end PVE requires the same amount of knowledge. maybe even more - you have to know the mobs, their behavior, behavior of heroes, and so on. and you have to understand the PVE game mechanics as well.
on the other hand, you don't need that much knowledge in low-end PVE nor in low-end PVP - be it JQ/FA/AB or RA.
the fact that PVE and PVP knowledge is different is quite obvious. but neither is 'harder', 'more important' or 'more elitist'.

Quote:

like i said in my first post, plz dont look at this from a post-eotn perspective. (...)

the point here is that we are in post-eotn era. PVE was harder than it is now, due to less skills and classes, no PVE-only skill and cons - sure. but PVP was also changed because of new classes, new skills, new skill balances.
the game has evolved. the community has evolved. more people gathered knowledge of the mechanics and passed it through via wikis and other pages. the 'elitist knowledge' that was limited to a number of hardcore PVP players some time ago is now easily accessible. sure, you need to gather some experience and gain the general know-how on your own - how to act in the heat of PVP battle - but PVE is not much different - you still have to gather the experience and try something several times before you master it - or even manage to complete.

PVP used to be harder in 'the old days' as well. the point is that we're not in the old days. both formats are much easier now, both formats require some knowledge in order to be successful, both formats require to get experienced, both formats are - in the end - the festival of grind if you want to max out your achievements.
they are different, but neither is 'better' or 'worse'. or actually 'harder', unless you believe that having more variables in PVP is 'harder' and not just 'more fun'.

oh, and to reply to that 'PVP elitist hate' and all - there are much more PVPers that threat PVE as 'the shitty side' than PVErs that talk the same about PVP.

e:

Quote:

Yeah gw is pretty much dead.

sorry, it's not. all that 'gw is dead' rant is just whining of moroons around. sure, it's less populated than it used to, but it's far from being dead.

Amaurosis · Apr 11, 2010, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

please provide an official source. i never saw an ANet employee to state that GW was originally (or up to some point) a PVP-oriented game, although i have seen this point of view brought up many times, so maybe it's just my lack of knowledge.
until i see an official statement confirming this, it's just a PVPers' meme.

"Rather than labeling Guild Wars an MMORPG, we prefer to call it a CORPG (Competitive Online Role-Playing Game). Guild Wars was designed from the ground up to create the best possible competitive role-playing experience. Success in Guild Wars is always the result of player skill, not time spent playing or the size of one's guild"
http://www.guildwars.com/products/gu...es/default.php
There's your proof, this game was designed to provide the "best possible" pvp gameplay experience. They also wanted to not have a grind factor. However when the game did begin to decline they added titles which contributed to the grind.
Now that that's been cleared up you can understand why HA emote was exclusive to PvP.

drkn · Apr 11, 2010, 05:16 PM // 17:16

i see 'competitive role-playing experience'. not 'competitive PVP gameplay experience'. competitive != pvp only.
e: from reading the whole FAQ you've linked, i don't got an impression they promote either side of the game. both PVP and PVE are and were important. a single sentence may be shown however you like...
not to mention it would be stupid for the developer to focus on one side and lose the other's fans as probable buyers.

there's another argument brought up by PVPers to back up why it's so elite - one can buy runs and rushes through the PVE content instead of playing it. let me then remind you a guy called Crystal Story...

Amaurosis · Apr 11, 2010, 05:49 PM // 17:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

i see 'competitive role-playing experience'. not 'competitive PVP gameplay experience'. competitive != pvp only.
e: from reading the whole FAQ you've linked, i don't got an impression they promote either side of the game. both PVP and PVE are and were important. a single sentence may be shown however you like...
not to mention it would be stupid for the developer to focus on one side and lose the other's fans as probable buyers.

Then you must not have read the entirety of the second question. It goes on to say "there is no player-killing in cooperative areas of the world." No-player killing in reference to cooperative the last time i checked refers to PvE and doesn't involve their idea of competivie online gameplay. They said the game was built from the ground up to provide the best competitive gameplay experience which is why they chose call it an CORPG. So yes competive=pvp and cooperative=pve. Just because they mention PvE as an option doesn't mean they don't favor PvP. If that was the case then why say they designed to game's core to be based on competitive gameplay. And i'm pretty sure that they would have the insight to make low-end pvp and pve, knowing that not everyone would be vigorous competitive players.

So back to the topic of the OP, why have PvE emotes when PvE in itself is nothing but a grind. HA back then required skills and as such players were rewarded with special emotes. Some even left HA after feeling as though they weren't getting any better and just grinding it out now. They played it because they enjoyed the competitive gameplay and not because they wanted to grind it for rewards. Even though that's not the case now, it's still no reason to implement PvE titles just because players are done with titles and want recognition in some other manner since everyone has GWAMM.

/not signed for both sides because at this stage the masses are making ridiculous demands for this game.

Sir Kill A Little · Apr 11, 2010, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Giving the high end PvE titles (like the ones that give favor) emotes wouldn't be bad, since some of those can actually be harder than most PvP titles.

But all PvE titles would just create lag and would make noobs feel too special.

EDIT: Also with GW2 coming around the corner... I'd be surprised if they made big changes like this.

Thevil King · Apr 11, 2010, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

whether you like it or not, RA is a part of GW PVP. be glad i haven't mentioned JQ, FA and AB - whether you like it or not, those formats are PVP as well. PVP is not limited to GvG and HA only, although 'elitist pvpers' tend to be ignorant.

i did not say ra is not a part of gw pvp, i simply said you cannot define gw pvp with only ra. but ok, lets take ra into consideration here. you can read up on as much guides as you want on it, and dl builds from wiki, but they do NOTHING to guarantee taht you will succeed in ra. while in pve, the guides pretty much babysits the reader through the missions and quests in their entirety.

Quote:

please provide an official source. i never saw an ANet employee to state that GW was originally (or up to some point) a PVP-oriented game, although i have seen this point of view brought up many times, so maybe it's just my lack of knowledge.
until i see an official statement confirming this, it's just a PVPers' meme.

Amaurosis pretty much answers this all in his post.

Quote:

high-end PVE requires the same amount of knowledge. maybe even more - you have to know the mobs, their behavior, behavior of heroes, and so on. and you have to understand the PVE game mechanics as well.
on the other hand, you don't need that much knowledge in low-end PVE nor in low-end PVP - be it JQ/FA/AB or RA.
the fact that PVE and PVP knowledge is different is quite obvious. but neither is 'harder', 'more important' or 'more elitist'.

lol... i don't think there is any such demand for ai and their noob behavior when you already ripping through them with op pve skills powered by consets. as for behavior of heroes, guess what, hb demanded this AS THE FUNDAMENTALS, and much more. and honestly, in pve, your heroes pretty much do everything. i know people whod h/h slavers hm. there really is not much requirement for knowledge of game mechanics in pve compared to pvp.

as for low-end, i think you are confusing accessibility with difficulty. jq/fa/ab/ra are easily accessible, but that does not mean everyone will do well at them. in fact, the times where ppl having no idea what to do screw up a game of ab or ra is just countless. now compare this to low-end pve, load up a couple of bars from wiki on heroes, and you can pretty much go afk while they kill sht for u, even if you dont get masters or whatever on a mission, you still pass it. there is absolutely no difficulty in beating the game, even for clueless people.

Quote:

the point here is that we are in post-eotn era. PVE was harder than it is now, due to less skills and classes, no PVE-only skill and cons - sure. but PVP was also changed because of new classes, new skills, new skill balances.
the game has evolved. the community has evolved. more people gathered knowledge of the mechanics and passed it through via wikis and other pages. the 'elitist knowledge' that was limited to a number of hardcore PVP players some time ago is now easily accessible. sure, you need to gather some experience and gain the general know-how on your own - how to act in the heat of PVP battle - but PVE is not much different - you still have to gather the experience and try something several times before you master it - or even manage to complete.

PVP used to be harder in 'the old days' as well. the point is that we're not in the old days. both formats are much easier now, both formats require some knowledge in order to be successful, both formats require to get experienced, both formats are - in the end - the festival of grind if you want to max out your achievements.
they are different, but neither is 'better' or 'worse'. or actually 'harder', unless you believe that having more variables in PVP is 'harder' and not just 'more fun'.

yes, we are in the post-eotn era, but taht doesnt mean anything. if a new player comes to gw right now, and sees the state of pve and pvp, should he conclude that what he sees is gw in its entirety and its always been like this? clearly not. but this is what A LOT of people are doing. yes, pvp has changed, and all kinds of things happend that screwd up the game. but overall, the skills required to play pve, as of now, is nowhere close to the skills required to play pvp. do pvp players have title buffs, consets, clear guide throughs to how to win halls or win a gold cape? no, but pve players have titles buffs, consets, guides to clearing uw/fow/doa, and many more. these are the cold, hard facts: the difficulty of pve now is not even remotely close to how it was back then, and clearly not comparable to pvp. and for that, no pve titles do not deserve emotes.

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oh, and to reply to that 'PVP elitist hate' and all - there are much more PVPers that threat PVE as 'the shitty side' than PVErs that talk the same about PVP.

orly? the last time i checked, there are just as many haters on pve side as pvp, if not more, since the pve population outweighs pvp by far. look at this thread, for example, so many people bashing on pvp. but honestly i dont care about how many, the truth is both sides have haters, and thats enough to justify that it is unfair to only single out pvp ppl and accuse them of doing something both sides do.

drkn · Apr 11, 2010, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Thevil: define "skill".

@down: candies?

Thevil King · Apr 11, 2010, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

Thevil: define "skill".

something that has very little to do with the current state of gw and emotes

calamari cruiser · Apr 19, 2010, 08:14 AM // 08:14

/signed But maybe just for gwamm out of the pve titles ^^

meemu91 · Apr 22, 2010, 01:47 PM // 13:47

/notsigned for PVE emotes
/signed for glad, champ